Heseltine condemns Boris Johnson's 'obscene' EU comments - Politics live

The EU referendum campaign has now gone full surreal; Boris Johnson (in response to Michael Heseltine’s comments) is claiming that the campaign should not be about personalities. This is from the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg.

Q: Are you hoping the migrant crisis will will this for you?

No, says Farage. He says it is not just the migrant crisis. Since 2007 average workers have seen a fall in real-terms pay because of the impact of immigration.

Mandelson says every single independent study has found that immigration has not had the effect on wages that Farage says.

Wages have been stagnant since 2007 because of the financial crisis. And that was the fault of the banks, not immigrants.

And the fault of Labour, Farage says.

Mitchell says it is important to remember that not all young people are students. What opportunities has the EU created for working class young people?

Farage says universities are teaching “a very one-sided view” of what the EU is like.

Mitchell says this sounds like “paranoia”.

McDonnell says there are around 40,000 British students studying in Europe. They go their for cheaper tuition fees. He says this generation really values the opportunities created by free movement. Young people just want to be free, he says. We should not do anything that undermines that.

McDonnell says it would help if Farage turned up to the European parliament.

Yes, that would really help, says Farage sarcastically.

He says we are stuck in something that is undemocratic.

Mandelson says we have direct democracy in this country.

People present the EU as if British ministers are never there.

If you had British ministers who turned up and fought for Britain, they would make a difference.

The problem at the moment is that the government is so indifferent to Europe that it does not pursue British interests.

Leadsom says that is “outrageous”.

Farage says on 72 occasions the British have been outvoted in the council of ministers. We are not winning, he says.

Our influence is just about zero.

Mandelson says this government often only turns up at the end of the process.

Leadsom says that is not right. Under Labour Britain lost influence in the commission, she says.

She says Mandelson is “just talking rubbish”. She says she turns up to all energy minister meeting. And she says Mandelson should say that his EU pension depends on him not attacking the EU.

McDonnell says if the UK votes to leave the EU, the Tory government will still be in power. He says EU regulations are necessary to protect people’s rights.

Farage says that, if we leave the EU, all laws implemented while we were a member will still be on the statute book. So rights will still exist.

The key point is that parliament will then have the ability to decide whether or not it wants to keep these laws, he says.

Q: A migrant from outside the EU will have to show they are earning £35,000 a year. If we leave, will we have to deport people living here now?

Farage says anyone who has come here legally has come here legally.

Farage goes back to the point about Norway.

It would be ghastly being like Norway, he says: rich, free, catching your own fish, and having your own seat at the WTO.

He says small business is damaged by the EU. Only 12% of business exports. But all businesses have to comply with EU regulation.

Bosses spend a quarter of the working week having to deal with red tape, he says. After Brexit that would decline.

Farage criticises the EU/Turkey deal, saying it will allow Turks to come and stay in the EU.

Mandelson says Farage is wrong. The deal only allows visa-free travel in the Schengen area for 180 days. That is not enough time to enable people to get a German passport, as Farage suggests, Mandelson says.

Farage was quoting not Mandelson but Andrew Neather, who worked as a speechwriter in Downing Street and the Home Office when Labour was in government.

Claiming that Labour encouraged immigration partly to promote diversity, Neather said in 2009:

Earlier drafts I saw also included a driving political purpose: that mass immigration was the way that the Government was going to make the UK truly multicultural.

I remember coming away from some discussions with the clear sense that the policy was intended – even if this wasn’t its main purpose – to rub the Right’s nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date.

Neather was speaking about a report published in 2001.

Farage says from 1950 until Tony Blair came into power net migration was running at around 30,000 a year.

Now the official figures, if you believe them, are running at 10 times that number.

McDonnell talked about planning for migration, he says. But you cannot have planning when there is an open door, he says.

He says he would like to get net migration back to from 30,000 to 50,000 a year.

He says when Islamic State they will use the migrant crisis to flood the EU with jihadis, “I suggest we take them seriously”.

Q: But do you accept that migration contributes to economic growth?

Farage says quality of life is more important than growth.

Mandelson says Farage is not interested in tackling immigration. He is just interesting in stirring the pot for his own interests.

Farage says it was Mandelson who did this. He says Labour wanted to promote immigration to rub people’s noses in diversity.

Mandelson gets angry. What’s wrong with diversity?

Mitchell objects to. She asks how Farage could say that sitting next to a black woman.

Mandelson tells Farage to apologise.

Farage says he was quoting Mandelson when he talking about him wanting to rub people’s noses in diversity.

Mandelson says that’s rubbish.

• Farage provokes fury after claiming Labour promoted immigration to rub people’s noses in diversity.

McDonnell says Leadsom should not blame migrants for overwhelming services. Those migrants are often providing public services, she says.

Mitchell says she objects to the language of “overwhelmed”. That is too reminiscent of the way migrants used to be talked about in the past, she says.

Hazarika says the Brexit Tories are blaming immigration for everything that is going wrong with the government. But who has been in charge for the last six years?

Farage says our net contribution to the EU is £34m a day.

Farage says he visited a car importer recently. They have to pay a 10% tariffs to import cars from Japan.

If Britain were outside the EU, Britain would find it easier to be flexible, and cut deals, he says.

Look at how many German cars are on the road. Or how much French wine we drink - “or some of us drink”.

People will go on buying these products, he says.

Mandelson says the UK also needs German firms like BMW coming to the UK. They will only do that if they can get “complete, unhindered access to the vast EU market”.

If we leave the EU, those companies will leave the UK, he says.

Farage says we sell more cars made in the UK to India and China than to Europe. It is a global economy, he says.

ITV’s Mark Austin is chairing the debate.

Leadsom says it would be easy to negotiate new trade deals, because they would be replicating the EU trade deals that exist already.

McDonnell says the EU has 53 trade deals. Imagine how hard it would be to replicate those. Barack Obama says we would be at the back of the queue for an American one.

Q: Donald Trump says we would be at the front of the queue.

McDonnell says we are in trouble if we believe everything Trump says.

Farage says the EU is “rubbish” at negotiating trade deals. The department Mandelson used to run is sclerotic, he says.

Q: How do we know the UK would be any better?

Farage says he believes the UK is good enough to stand on its own.

And he says you do not need a trade deal to do business. America and China do not have trade deals with the EU. But they still sell to Europe.

The Green party’s Greens for a Better Europe campaign is today highlighting the advantages of a free movement within the EU. This is from the Green MEP and migration spokesperson Jean Lambert.

Freedom of movement is absolutely something to be celebrated, not eschewed. Life in our towns and cities can be enhanced by living alongside people from other countries.

Freedom of movement works two-ways – something those who would like us to isolate ourselves from our European neighbours are happy to ignore. Many Brits choose to work, study or retire abroad, as is their current right, and a decision to leave the European Union would cast into doubt our continued ability to exercise this right.

There are more details in the party’s news release here.

Leave.EU has produced a report saying none of the rights underpinning the Northern Ireland peace process would be affected by Brexit. It says the European convention on human rights, which the Good Friday agreement rests upon, has nothing to do with the EU. The report argues:

The return of sovereignty to the UK could see human rights protections actually improve while our current constitutional arrangements will remain stable ... None of the policies, legislation, rights or relationships which underpin the peace process are dependent upon the EU and they will not be affected by Brexit.

The SNP is claiming that the Daily Mail’s Serco story sheds light on the “sinister” tactics David Cameron employed during the Scottish independence referendum. This is from the SNP’s MSP James Dornan.

This damning new evidence lays bare the concerted effort of the UK government to pressurise big business to try and whip up anti-independence fears - and gets to the heart of the sinister, behind the scenes campaign David Cameron ran in the final weeks of the referendum.

Now we know that the UK government was pressing businesses to garner publicity for anti-independence scaremongering, people in Scotland will view every anti-independence pronouncement from the Tories in the same light - and won’t believe a single word they say on the issue.

Boris Johnson claims that the fact that Serco’s boss Rupert Soames was involved in talks with David Cameron about mobilising business support for the EU makes Britain look like “a banana republic”. (See 12.23pm.)

Johnson has not always been so sceptical about Serco. The firm was involved in the “Boris bikes” project, and in 2012 Johnson was quoted in a Serco press release praising the company.

At the same Vote Leave press conference, Tim Loughton, the former children’s minister, ruled out support form a second referendum. His comments followed Nigel Farage’s claims that he would support such a campaign if there was close result in June. Loughton said:

Let us be absolutely clear. This is a one off. There is not going to be another referendum. Referendums are not like London buses - you wait for 41 years for one to come along and then several come along at once. And that is why it is really important that either side accepts the decision on June 24th and we move on. Myself and Fresh Start members are going to fight on for the next five weeks, but we are not going to have another shot at this.

Q: Does the Remain side need more passion?

Cameron says he does feel passionate about this. He feels idealistic about the fact that people in the EU have found a way of resolving their differences without conflict.

He says he never said leaving the EU would lead to world war three.

The point he was making was that, when you have found a way of avoiding conflict, you should think carefully about giving that up, he says.

He says his is a “Britain first” argument.

And that’s it. The Q&A is over.

Q: What do you have to say to Europe? Many in the EU would be happy to see the UK leave?

Cameron says the UK brings a lot to the EU. In particular, it is putting pressure on the UK to conclude trade deals. And the UK as got as much experience as any other country in combating terrorism and tackling extremism. Europe could do better at these two areas, and the UK can help.

He says he understands why people in the EU get frustrated with the UK. We do not do this “utopian dreamy stuff’, with flags and so on, he says.

He says, if we win the referendum, the EU will “welcome us back”.

Q: [From ITV’s Robert Peston] Sir Richard Dearlove criticised the EU/Turkey migrants deal last night. (See 9.34am.) It is a seriously bad deal, isn’t it?

Cameron says he does not agree.

It was important to get a deal with Turkey to enable migrants coming into the EU to be sent back to Turkey. That would break the economic model of the people smugglers. And the numbers coming to the EU has fallen ten-fold, he says.

He says for most of the time he has been prime minister Sir John Sawyers was head of MI6 and Sir Jonathan Evans was head of MI5. They have both worked on foiling plots and keeping the UK safe. And they both say the UK will be safer staying in the EU.

Cameron says he is not going to the polls saying, ‘Vote to stay in the EU, it is magnificent’. It isn’t, he says. He is saying vote to stay in because it is in the UK’s national interest.

Q: Does the electorate respect the EU as much as it should?

Cameron says there is a lot of frustration with the EU. He has a lot of frustration with it. But that is not the question on the ballot paper. The issue is, do we stay or do we leave?

He says his renegotiation addressed some of the factors that make people frustrated, like the bureaucracy and the sense that the EU was becoming too much of a single market club.

Q: [From the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg] You are making warnings every day. But isn’t there a problem that this does not turn voters on. Are you worried about Remain supporters not turning out?

Cameron says he has been making a positive case for the EU.

Our membership of the EU enhances our ability to get things done, he says.

But he says he makes no apology for warning about the dangers of what might happen if the UK left.

It would be wrong of him as prime minister not to listen to bodies like the IMF and the OECD, he says.

Cameron says he hopes that businesses will speak out.

He wants the public to have the fullest possible debate. So firms should speak out, whatever side they are on, he says.

Cameron says his ninth, and final, myth is the idea that, even though there might be a short-term hit to the economy, there would be long-term benefits.

But that is not what the economists say, he says. They are clear that Brexit would cause long-term damage to the economy, he says.

Cameron says the eighth myth is that economists are split on the merits of EU membership.

But the overwhelming weight of evidence is that Britain would be worse off out of the EU, he says.

Cameron says myth number seven is the idea that manufacturing would thrive outside the EU.

This is easy to deal with, he says. He says leaving the EU and the single market would destroy a huge amount of jobs in the City, and in financial services centres outside London. The head of the stock exchange said 100,000 jobs would go in the City alone if the UK left the EU.

Cameron says the sixth myth is that the UK would better placed to sign free trade deals if it were out of the EU.

He says he wants the EU to sign more trade deals. But the EU has signed more trade deals than the US, he says.

Cameron says the fifth myth is that the UK could just rely on its World Trade Organisation (WTO) membership.

He says Leave say the UK has given up its seat on the WTO. That is not right.

And WTO rules involve tariffs, he says.

Cameron says the fourth myth is that Britain could negotiate a good free trade deal with the EU.

But a Norway-type deal would require the UK to comply with all EU rules, and allow free movement of people.

Some Leave campaigners suggest the Canada option. But that would not be a good option either, because it includes some tariffs, he says.

Leave have also suggested Albania as a model. But even the Albanians say this would be a bad idea.

Cameron says the third myth is particularly important - the suggestion that they need us more than we need them, and that therefore they would offer us a good trade deal.

But 44% of our exports go to the EU, and only 8% of theirs go to the UK, Cameron says.

He also says it is true that the UK has a deficit with the EU in goods. But we have a very large surplus in services, and the EU may be willing to offer the UK a free trade deal covering goods, but not services, he says.

Camerons says the second myth is that, if the UK left the EU, it would be able to abandon lots of costly regulation.

But in practice firms that wanted to export to the EU would still have to comply with these regulations, he says.

And he says, when you ask the Leave campaign, what myths they want to abolish, they cannot answer. Most of these regulations are necessary, he says.

Back to the YouGov Labour poll. Here are the YouGov tables with the full results (pdf).

John Rentoul, the Independent columnist, has been tweeting more of the results.

Rentoul does not have a high opinion of the views of Labour members - at least on the subject of antisemitism.

On the Today programme this morning John Redwood, the Conservative former minister and leading Brexit campaigner, backed Sir Richard Dearlove’s comments about Turkey. (See 9.34am.) He said:

I fear that [Dearlove] is right that the European Union is harming European security and prosperity and this is now fuelling very unpleasant extreme politics.

He draws attention to the way that the EU is not responding well to a mass migration crisis.

When you combine that with the crisis in the euro area with mass unemployment, you then produce these extreme right groupings and you see the EU alternating between being generous and then being extremely clumsy and authoritarian, now talking about putting up border towers and walls and fences along the Turkish border with the Middle East because they are so nervous about the impact of the changes on the European Union itself.

But Meral Hussein-Ece, a Lib Dem peer who sits on the all-party parliamentary group for Turkey, told the programme she thought Dearlove was wrong.

I think we need to move away from the fact that Turkey is somehow a threat. Turkey has been containing the Syrian refugees, three million of them in Turkey, so it’s actually been helping the European Union by acting as a de facto border.

John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, is delivering his EU speech now. Addressing concerns that at heart is a Eurosceptic, he said that no one should doubt his commitment to securing a Remain vote. He was so committed to this that he was even going to share a platform with Peter Mandelson at the Daily Mirror debate this afternoon, he said.

I will post a summary of the speech when I’ve got the text.

In a speech last night Sir Richard Dearlove, a former head of MI6, said the European Union offering visa-free access to millions of Turks was like “storing gasoline next to the fire”. Referring to the rise of an extremist party, the Freedom party, in Austria, he said:

Other extreme right populist parties will follow, and they are gathering support, especially in central Europe. The EU’s response has been hesitant and irresolute. Complicated by the differing reaction of member states and the extent to which their national interests are affected. To see walls and fences going up across Europe reminds me of the Iron Curtain, which I crossed many times, it was always a sinister moment. For the EU however to offer visa free access to 75 million Turks, to stem the flow of migrants across the Aegean, seems perverse. Like storing gasoline next to the fire we are trying to extinguish ...

Today, Europe faces a new migration test more serious than in 1945 because it is global in nature rather than intra-European. Failing to meet this challenge suggests that the EU in its present configuration of 28 vastly differing national interests thrown into stark relief by the migration crisis may well have outlived its historical role and the EU’s inept response to the Balkan crisis and to the Ukraine’s westward move away from Russia’s former imperium is further evidence of an alliance of nation states struggling with its geopolitical role.

This morning Onur Oymen, a former Turkish ambassador to Nato, said Dearlove’s comments were “quite unfortunate”. He told the Today programme Europe would be more secure if Turkey joined Nato.

To give you an example, we have repatriated all European terrorists that we have detained in Turkey, but practically not a single Turkish terrorist detained in EU countries has been repatriated to Turkey. We need to cooperate more against terrorists, it’s true, but to qualify visa-free travel to Turks as storing gasoline near a fire is too much.

There is some terrible news for Jeremy Corbyn’s criticis within the Labour party today. A poll of party members carried out by YouGov for the Times (paywall) shows that he is more popular with ever, suggesting that any attempt to beat him in a new leadership would (so long as he insisted on standing) be doomed to dismal failure.

Corbyn won the Labour leadership last autumn with almost 60% of the vote on the first ballot. YouGov found that 50% of party members say they would “definitely” vote for him again, and 14% would “probably” do so - suggesting he would do even better in a new contest.

YouGov found that Labour members have a higher opinion of Corbyn than they did when YouGov carried out a similar survey in November, the Times reports.

Support for Mr Corbyn has gone up among paid-up members, who all have a say in choosing the leader. Across a range of key indicators, 72 per cent think he is doing a good job, up from 66 per cent in November. The proportion who think he is “competent” has risen from 41 per cent in November to 45 per cent now.

Labour is seen as more likely to win a general election with Mr Corbyn at the helm than if he is replaced. If Mr Corbyn remains in place, 49 per cent of Labour members believe they would win the next election, while 40 per cent believe they would not.

A greater proportion of members now believe that Mr Corbyn will become prime minister at some point. Some 47 per cent say he is likely to enter Downing Street, compared with 46 per cent who say he is unlikely to do so. In November 40 per cent thought it likely and 50 per cent unlikely.

YouGov also found that there was little support for potential rivals.

There is no consensus amongst those Labour members who want to get rid of Mr Corbyn as to who his replacement should be: 19 per cent name Dan Jarvis, 17 per cent Andy Burnham, 13 per cent Yvette Cooper and 5 per cent Chuka Umunna.

If there is any reaction to this, I will post it. Then we’re back to the EU referendum. Here is the agenda for the day.

9.30am: John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, delivers a speech on the EU referendum. As Heather Stewart reports, he will say that Labour can “rescue” the European Union referendum debate from Conservative infighting by making a positive case for Britain to remain in the EU.

9.30am: Inflation figures are published.

10.30am: Andrea Leadsom, the energy minister, gives a Vote Leave speech on the EU and energy security.

11am: Nigel Farage, the Ukip leader, speaks at a Bruges Group event on the European arrest warrant.

11.25am: David Cameron gives a speech.

1.15pm: Priti Patel, the employment minister, and Chris Leslie, the former shadow chancellor, speak at an Institute of Directors EU referendum event.

3.30pm: Nigel Farage and Lord Mandelson take part in the Daily Mirror’s EU debate. Other participants include Andrea Leadsom and John McDonnell.

I will be covering Cameron’s speech in detail but, as usual, I will also be covering the breaking political news as it happens, as well as bringing you the best reaction, comment and analysis from the web. I will post a summary at lunchtime and another in the afternoon.

If you want to follow me or contact me on Twitter, I’m @AndrewSparrow.

I try to monitor the comments BTL but normally I find it impossible to read them all. If you have a direct question, do include “Andrew” in it somewhere and I’m more likely to find it. I do try to answer direct questions, although sometimes I miss them or don’t have time. Alternatively you could post a question to me on Twitter.

If you think there are any voices that I’m leaving out, particularly political figures or organisations giving alternative views of the stories I’m covering, do please flag them up below the line (include “Andrew” in the post). I can’t promise to include everything, but I do try to be open to as wide a range of perspectives as possible.