Sue Perkins is a comedian (first making her name with Mel Giedroyc via appearances on French and Saunders), a television and radio broadcaster (one of the original presenters of The Great British Bake Off), and an actor and writer. She has just written and directed a short, flirtatiously entertaining contribution to Sky’s Urban Myths series.
How was it that Joan Rivers and Barbra Streisand met, kissed, and inspired your Urban Myth?
The brilliant thing about the Urban Myths idea is that you’re asked to be a detective and fantasist at the same time. Much of what I’ve written is fantastical. But we do know, from a playbill, that in late 1958, early 1959, Joan Rivers and Barbra Streisand acted in a play called Driftwood.
Not a very promising title…
I always say, if you worry about reviewers, don’t hand them that gift… but Joan Rivers was desperate to get into serious drama. She gender-swapped a role and she had a love scene with Barbra. In her autobiography, she describes the kiss of Barbra Streisand as “fine” once you “got her nose out of the way”. Barbra has never alluded to the kiss or acknowledged it.
I love the line you give Joan: “I’ve died so many times I bring my own defibrillator on stage.” What part have nerves played in your own life?
I see it as surfing a wave. The wave is adrenaline. If you catch it right, it supports and carries you. If you catch it wrong, it smashes and can debilitate you.
Are writing nerves different?
The blank page is terrifying. I’m a perfectionist, but am trying to replace perfectionism with authenticity. I’m interested in doing more writing. And don’t get me started on directing… my interest in that has been well and truly unleashed.
When you look back, was getting into Cambridge University (and joining Footlights) a game changer?
It changed my entire life – that’s why I feel strongly about today’s university students locked up in halls of residence… it must be hellish. I wasn’t particularly academic. What changed my life was finding a tribe of people that are still family today.
You have described yourself as a risk-taker. How much is this period about risk-calculation?
It’s great we’ve been given such clear guidelines [hollow laugh]. There is a disconnect between state and individual liberty. People want to push the boundaries of both. I’ve had coronavirus and wouldn’t wish it on anyone. For three months afterwards, I couldn’t go up a flight of stairs without being severely out of breath. I take it incredibly seriously. I wear a mask, take my temperature every day. For me, there was the additional worry of my sister being pregnant. I was so careful because that was the most precious thing in the world to me – that it went OK.
And did it?
It’s gone marvellously and I’m brimful with delight – a baby girl.
You are 51 now – how was the approach to 50?
It was hard and with existential moments: what have I done? I’m a failure, I’m useless. But that’s not a narrative I want to take forward. I’m lucky: I’ve my mum’s genes. In a bad light, I don’t look 51. My inner age varies between eight and 17.
You were diagnosed as having a benign brain tumour – does this have side-effects?
It’s profoundly disturbing. It sits in your pituitary and can disrupt your thyroid and is responsible for mood, stress, blood pressure. But having it removed is a dangerous op, so mine is monitored and doing well. But I feel I must couch this in context and not least because my beloved dad died of a malignant brain tumour… a benign tumour is easy to manage once you have the right treatment.
How much is your ability to crack jokes a cover for shyness?
It started out that way. Increasingly, it’s more a way of trying to communicate, break ice, find common ground.
What do you like most about television presenting?
My best presenting is when they say: let the shambolic oaf do her own thing. Everything I do is improvised. I don’t like scripts because they distance you from the moment. Joy comes from stuff that happens in the margins. It never comes from the perfect cake or balanced interview. It comes from the dropped cake or from the wobbly interview – where someone’s humanity pokes through.
Speaking of cake, do you miss Bake Off?
We were there from the beginning and had a hand in shaping it, which is not to detract from the people who devised it. Our input was to create a tone that was kind and inclusive. I’m delighted Matt [Lucas] and Noel [Fielding] have carried that on – they’re brilliant. I’ve no ill will towards anyone. It’s never a story to say you wish everyone the best – but that’s the reality.
How do you see the future?
We’re simultaneously trying not to think about the future while relentlessly planning for it. The future is about recognising that things are wrong and that the structures in which we live are unsustainable. What has been so shocking is how quickly we have gone from relative ease to endgame capitalism. People are in shock. We miss the old ways – even the daily grind of the commute. Mine is a sociable business but I can’t hug the people I have worked with for 30 years. I am an eldest child and a lot of my planning is about trying to future-proof the people I love.
Urban Myths: Joan Rivers and Barbra Streisand airs on Sky Arts on 14 October at 10pm and is also available on Freeview channel 11
